CAMWorks for Solid Edge Beta Released

OK folks the beta is out. Go to http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=99a7c340667821f4ee55fc3c5&id=fe1926d215&e=1458db190e for more information. This will only work for current customers as login to site is required. I would caution you to try the Beta on a second PC and not your main one. If you are not aware of this you can request a “Home Use” license from Siemens for Solid Edge which will allow you to run a second copy of SE. I have had trouble before with the Tech Data base on my daily user so I wont do that again and recommend you do as I will and try the beta out on my laptop and not my workstation.

You should also find there some info on what you might get if you participate in beta testing AND turn in any problems you find. Along with the download link there is of course information on whats new and install.

Try the beta of the only truly integrated CAM program in the SE ecosphere at this current time.

Update for CAMWorks for SE and SE ST7

Pleased to say that progress is being made for CW4SE behind the scenes. The beta for integration with ST7 will be out this week and if typical patterns are followed the official release will be within a month. Also the work continues on the new Tech Data Base that will allow for real world tools and I presume in time the importing of tool libraries from manufacturers. Of course along with this rework the out of the box tool path strategies will be improved so look for great things in the next year.

I know, next year? Why so long? While Geometric is a pretty decent sized software developer there is a limit to how much manpower they have to delegate to stuff like this and sadly real life things like trade shows and work for others like SW has to be done to. Lets face it here, while the population of CW4SE users is growing it is nothing at all like other specific programs in the size of the user base and they can’t drop everything just to make the new kid on the block happy. This is real life here but I can say with confidence that, and this includes the SW users of CAMWorks to, there is continued development of the new way and as far as I can tell they are quite serious and do not intend to stop. They are aware of how dated some aspects of the program are. Indeed with the work and super competitive pricing Autodesk is bringing to the world with the combination of HSMWorks and Inventor and others are also doing with integrating tool management and libraries and cutting strategies they know things have to advance. I find myself going back to ZW3D on occasion for really simple 2D tool paths. Is it not strange that of all cutting that simple 2D seems to be fraught with more problems than 3D? Strange but true and it is so with most CAM programs out there. ZD does these pretty well or I just happen to know it well enough to make it seem easy. But NOTHING beats the combination of Volumill and Constant Stepover with CW4SE as far as I am concerned. Cut some more dough extrusion dies this week and I just love it when customers call up and marvel over how nice the work is. Keep in mind I did not have to do ANY polishing after the fact to get these up to food grade.

Now we have ST7 to play with also and it is a very good release. Nothing remarkable that I have seen but improvements in how easy it is to do daily clicks and picks. Sometimes I would far rather see these things happen. Dimensioning and picking reference points for example are far easier and how many times a day does this kind of stuff affect you? I have not played with 3D points nor have I made much headway with Keyshot in the brief time I have given to it. Really not all that interested in things outside of my little work world and what is specific to my products. I can say without reservation though that if you are a developer or manufacturer of machinery for food products manufacturing this is where you need to be.

The caveat to this and it is a serious one is that there sadly dwells withing the Siemens Ecosystem a particular individual who will remain un-named who has considerable authority to compromise the future of SE. He is an old time UGS guy and he despises SE. Quite frankly he sees SE as a threat to the giant cash cow NX etal represents to Siemens/UGS and while SE was good enough to develop Synchronous Tech which NX had no clue about it is not good enough to be fairly represented and promoted by Siemens in this mans eyes. For years I had heard this was the case but until I was informed by those who truly know I did not believe it. So SE is once again and still the red headed bastard step child that just wont go away and leave the UGS guys alone. Bet that dude and his friends in high places just hate it.

I know it takes just one rotten apple in the right place to destroy more than you can imagine and the efforts of top flight people like Dan Staples and Karsten Newbury. These guys are the best in the industry and are over the best mid range MCAD program in the industry that has not lived up to it’s potential as far as I can find out solely because Siemens has been convinced it is a threat to NX sales. Heaven forbid that! I guess these people figure that losing all the sales they were virtually guaranteed by Dassault idiocies was not worth losing a few NX sales. Penny wise and pound foolish and all to satisfy the ego of Mr NX who just happens to be an SE hater.

I will say this too. I see these NX camp guys pushing CAM Express for SE like it was a fully integrated program. I am telling anyone who wants to listen this is misrepresentation by them and yes there is a nice CE icon on your SE toolbar but then you have to bring it into NX cad and THEN you get to use CE with it. With CW4SE you have true integration and it works inside of SE with native files and updates and you NEVER leave the SE environment. I get so tired of NX people claiming true integration when it is not. But I expect this from that side of the aisle and from the Siemens SE killers.

Apparently all the user summits and roll-outs that usually accompany new SE releases regionally will not happen this year. I suppose this falls under the don’t want to sell too many SE seats category and I would imagine it has been starved deliberately for funds like so many other things that would have ably promoted dramatic sales increases for SE.

Folks, buy SE and CW4SE because they work well. Don’t buy them because you expect Siemens to aggressively acquire market share you can benefit from with the increased work it would represent. Under the current regime there is no interest in this. It is why the crap publicity and promotion happens year after year. And until this is changed at levels above Newbury and Staples where the real power to determine outcomes resides this is SE’s fate in life. It is indeed “The Best Software Siemens Does Not Want You To Hear Of” and not as folklore has it “The Best Software You’ve Never heard Of”.

Siemens and the Power of One

Today I go to Novedge as part of my day and I have to admit that it gave me pause to consider a long time situation. How is it that a major international corporation can’t do something as simple as a web page or blog? Is it because they hire such incompetents or is it because they starve good employees for budgets because what is important to the world is not to Siemens Muckymucks? Or is it because they starve incompetent employees of funds but funding would not matter anyway because incompetents would produce nothing of value in any case. So who hires these people anyway? Why even have a Marketing and PR department if they are not going to do anything? And then you have to wonder who supervises the playground and why errant children are never disciplined and made to do what they were supposedly told to do. Of course that opens up another whole realm of conjecture about who manages those who run the asylum if the inmates are the ones selecting what is done.

Or do they despise SE and just wish the problem would go away?

Matt Lombard has a blog “On The Edge” that he produces and is responsible for. He had to fight to get this and indeed it is the first time an independent guy produced his own blog outside of official Siemens Muckymuck auspices. This by the way is the only reason his sight works. So today as I peruse various sites with Firefox once again I am reminded of just how anal Siemens is and how impossible it is to get anything done there. Poor Matt is stuck with yet another rerun of SEU2014 because there is nothing new to talk about I expect and Summits I figure may or may not happen this year. I am thinking that they are still having meetings on the Summits and so there is nothing to talk about in this area yet. So just what can someone talk about without getting in trouble when there is corporate paralysis? Why the past of course. Now you Siemens nutjobs leave Matt alone about all this. I don’t talk to him anymore and he is not telling me this. I make these statements based upon what I see online and what I have personally experienced over the last five years. From the mouths of Solid Edge leadership comes confirmation of Siemens idiocy this year as they admit to Ralph Grabowski onstage at SEU 2014 that Siemens corporate CHOOSES to hamper SE. You don’t like what I post here talk to the idiots in Germany and not Matt.

But anyway to the topic at hand which is what do I see today. Here is Matt’s blog page.

Matt's

Just for giggles here is Dave Ault’s $100.00 per year “SolidEdging” page which includes two domains and spam filters from WordPress. And yes my $100.00 per year page works with all browsers in common use. Shocking isn’t it?

SolidEdging's $100.00 blog

Here we have the top flight professionally done Siemens corporate page produced I assume under the auspices of social media expert Chris Kelley and per Siemens corporate standards for Marketing and PR. Kelley and Siemens are of course part of a major international corporation with unlimited funds and abilities for those things which they find important. So let us go to the Siemens site today and have a look. Still the same mess it was weeks ago.

Siemens

Chock full of information and all links work and the visuals are an integrated cohesive sight to behold. It is easy to see the professional standards that Siemens demands be present with their public face at all times is world class and without fail is ever present.

Do you people in Siemens Germany Muckymuck land realize how stupid you look here? Do you care? Do you ever do anything but have meetings where nothing is decided and no one is accountable for anything? Have you forbidden tie up shoes yet? I think if I were you I would because it is unseemly according to professional Siemens standards to fall on your face all the time while tripping over your own shoelaces.

Please please would you sell off this red headed step child SE to someone who cares? May I suggest you sell to Autodesk? They apparently have management that can put their acquisitions to productive uses and their meetings apparently also produce results and not just another meeting date. Why not get some cash for this thing you don’t want or care about and be done with it eh?

Say, would it help if I posted a screen capture of an Autodesk site? http://cam.autodesk.com/inventor-hsm/ It works with Firefox by the way. And check those prices out while you are there. Autodesk regards new customers as something desirable to have would be my guess.

ScreenHunter_05 Jul. 07 10.31

Celebrate Fireworks Free July 4TH with Siemens SE Sales Supression Team

I had a young lad from my church stop by Thursday. Like many he has graduated from a two-year community college with an Autodesk oriented study mainly Revit and architectural stuff. He also claimed to have six months of Inventor and some SW under his belt. He was curious to see SE though and I always make time to show anyone who is interested. He has been working sweating copper for an HVAC company doing installs for Walmarts. He decided that he did not like the boss though and quit. Now in this retarded Obama economy he is finding out that work is hard to come by and he stopped in to see what I am doing and to see SE.

So I run through some SE stuff for a while and listen to the oohs and aahs that you hear from Inventor types and SW types when you start in on the direct editing goodies. And I get to sit there and grin when he says how long it would take to do these things in SW or Inventor. But then we get into the serious life questions that revolve around this kid getting work and a future. And we get into the serious questions of a potential employer not being able to find the skills he needs in potential employees.

Of course the local college is teaching Autodesk and SW. They all do don’t they? Now this did not happen by accident it was by design with companies that have the ability to be forward-looking and to plan a market conquest based upon creating a need and a labor resource to fill the need. It is called smart business and planning and laying a foundation for the future. Of course this is something the overlords of SE have never done from Integraph until today where Siemens with huge financial power continues this legacy of ignoring the best mid range MCAD program out there. So I sit here with this young lad and ponder this situation that bugs the heck out of me. Namely the idea that Siemens SHOULD be seeking larger market share for the benefit of all involved with SE. But oblivious to things that would benefit their customers and drive more sales for them we see nothing. Again and still and apparently forever.

I look at yet another prospective employee that has no skills I can use unless I am willing to teach him SE. And I would have to be the one to do it because it is not taught by any school I know of closer than a 75 mile drive for him each way to UAH in Huntsville. And even then the instructors in Huntsville are stuck on lazy and do not teach anything about SE ST SIX YEARS AFTER IT’S RELEASE. I figure it is because they might have to be bothered to learn something new before they can teach it. Yes you heard this right, they only can be bothered to teach ordered. And yes Siemens does not police what is done with contributions here so these students never see the most powerful part of SE. It’s no wonder why the adoption rate of ST is so darned low. How are people supposed to know about and be inspired about ST if Siemens can’t be bothered to get behind SE and push this technology? Osmosis? Siemens is truly anal and retarded about this and it just furthers the idea in my mind that they bought SE by design for internal use only. Buy SE because it works for you not because Siemens will work for you. If you are looking to buy SE you better think hard about this. This kid CAN however go five miles each way to Columbia Community College and be taught SW and Autodesk stuff. By design and by plan there is work out there for people trained in virtually everything but SE.

I find myself in a sad position with people and SE nowadays because what I say can influence life changing decisions. I do not try to talk people into buying or using SE anymore because there is just no work out there for them anywhere close to where I live and after five years I have given up on Siemens trying to change this situation for the better. I do highly recommend SE under these two following narrow sets of circumstances. If you are like me and you do design build under your own roof and are basically a closed complete manufacturing entity you absolutely can not beat the power of SE. Bring in your customers files or do your own and then make the designs become reality better and faster than any other way. The second is that I recommend for those shops that have multiples of seats to get at least one seat of SE to deal with imported files and editing quickly internal files that would otherwise consume whole days to fix with SW or Inventor. But your primary customers will in all likely hood be using SW or Inventor and they will expect you to do the same. Refer back to the shrewd planning idea that the masters of SE have been bereft of since the very beginning.

My advice to this kid was I will teach you how to tig weld. There are ads in the paper for welders. I was not going to waste his time and mine teaching him SE when I know he can’t find any work with it. Once again I come face to face with eventually having to train someone how to use SE if I ever hire a designer. Or buying a seat of Inventor or SW and bypassing the training hassle. I hate to say it but my up front costs as an employer will be far cheaper with software I can get trained users for. This is the reality of the world that has been inflicted upon SE by idiots like Siemens German Management Experts. At least they do meetings well and the meetings to plan further meetings bit to.

I am getting really soured on the SE ecosystem. It seems like every time I turn around there are roadblocks placed before the usefulness of SE to me as a company if I step outside of the narrow range of design build under my own roof with just myself. SE does not get me a single bit of work because I have customers that use it. At this time not one does. SE does not provide me with a potential trained work force because students choose to learn SE based upon the idea they will be employed using it. Students just 75 miles north of the SE headquarters have never even heard of SE and when they and the colleges look at help wanted boards SE is absent there to. So just why should the colleges and students be interested in something that will gain them no work? Answer, they aren’t. So we have these inflicted wounds upon the body of SE that have no relationship to the outright capabilities of SE but have as its sole source owners of SE stabbing SE in the back. Time and time again and year after year they inflict these wounds upon SE.

For five years now I have fought to change this and I have just given up. These Siemens people are truly terminal adding to the long list of idiot owners where SE is concerned and who do not care. I have nothing but the highest regard for Karsten Newbury and I know he gets all the right things and wants the right things to happen. Siemens shoots him down all the time. I am only going to say this one time but I mean it. Karsten, if this is the way Siemens is going to do you why stay? Why not join the others who are leaving because Siemens is NOT going to ever get behind SE as far as I can see and you can do far better than this for yourself. Siemens is not going to give you the support required to make SE #1 and in truth they could care less about that whole idea anyway. So where does that leave you? I don’t know how much time you might spend thinking about this but I do and I wonder where it leaves me as a small business owner. Artificially crippled by idiots in Siemens Germany Muckymuck land is what I am thinking. The dead and utter silence since SEU 2014 does nothing but confirm this to me. Not a word about the Summits this year and just space-filling SEU2014 junk on the official blogs. The CADCAM blogosphere seemingly could care less and has nothing much to say about the best software no one has ever heard of. Every day I can read a lot of stuff from individuals and companies about Autodesk and SW but not SE. I don’t have to be there to know that Siemens has cut the purse strings to SE and that they do not care what happens to SE nor do they care what their existing customers think of all this. I can look around me and see what is being done and make this most accurate judgement based upon what I see in the real world. Quite frankly I doubt entirely the idea that SE is #2 in midrange MCAD and I figure it is another thing pulled out of some marketing guys rear end. No provable numbers and no corporate office that cares and you can’t be #2 under this kind of environment. But you can however put a smiley face on this mess because smiley faces are free and within the Siemens authorized budget for SE.

The only hope for SE as far as I can tell are right minded VAR’s and they are the only ones doing good work and trying to get the word out there. They appear to be the only ones who really care about the future of SE. I think of my VAR which is Ally PLM. They do a superb job of support for SE as a product and me as a customer. They care in all the important ways that the Siemens Overlords do not. Heaven help SE if these VAR’s ever get tired of all this.

So Happy Fireworks Free 4Th to you all at Siemens and may you enjoy contemplating the environment of externally imposed failure you have created for SE.

Siemens Solid Edge German Controllers Doofus Update

I used to look at Novedge Pulse every day and typically it was the first site I would visit.I was enamored of the CADCAM world and Novedge is the place to begin it each day. Not so much since Siemens killed my desire to be an advocate for Siemens Controlled Solid Edge. So I go there today and like many I know I use Firefox as my browser now. IE has become to flaky for my use and many sites do not work. The apparent market leader in over all size is Chrome according to Wikipedia. I suspect that Chrome has this place because of mobile and the fact that any freeware you download has those sneaky little opt out of Chrome thingies hidden in it. Twice I have had to obliterate Chrome from my wife’s PC because Chrome was installed without her catching it. Google Chrome is supposed to be the market leader by size but I wonder how much of their base has been acquired by trickery

I recommend by the way doing away with anything Google since they have a desire to destroy any privacy you wish to have and replace it with a society that is driven and controlled entirely by nice honest people like them. Get in your automated Google car with no brake pedals or steering wheels and ask yourself who really is in charge here and hope a hacker does not mess with you. Hackers for you civil liberty type come in two flavors both criminal types inside and outside of government and all want your stuff and or your freedoms. Firefox is not an egregious offender in this area. DuckDuckGo is a search engine I use more and more. They are privacy minded and as far as I can tell do no data mining and keep no records. Because of this their results are becoming more and more accurate while Google is becoming more and more a place that sends you where they think they can make money off of you. The quality of results on searches from Google for me have been going downhill for some time now. I often give up after two or three pages and wonder just how so much junk with no bearing on what I typed in shows up.

Anyway back to the topic at hand which is more clueless Siemens Corporate inspired stupidity. I have more trouble with websites under the inspired hands and minds of Siemens Marketing and PR than all the other CADCAM companies combined. It is because they do not care enough about what you think of them to worry about what you see. So today using Firefox I go to Novedge for the first time this week and see an article on Synchronous adoption at a company and how they did it. I like SE ST so I go there to have a look as why people are not immediately drawn to ST as either an old history based hand or a newbie and how this company made it work. So with my #3 market share in size browser I click on the link and get this.

ScreenHunter_01 Jun. 19 05.53

So whats up guys, no money in the budget to fix things before you put it out there or no desire to fix things? I get very tired of constantly turning around and finding yet another careless and slipshod bit of work that exemplifies the attitude that emanates from German Siemens Corporate types and results in what we see at ground level. Evidently far under the lofty plateau of inspired and correct management who see things as they should be we basement dwelling dirt worm user types should be grateful they do anything at all.

I have another picture today that sums up quite well the Siemens corporate attitude towards SE.

redhead with target

From yet another purported spycam somewhere in Siemens Germanyland where wise policies are made we have another form of decision-making dart boards. This one is only for big wheels though and uses live people and products to stick darts in. Can you ever imagine that life as the SE red-headed step child is ever fun or exciting?

Here, let me help you Siemens Doofuses out. I have a suggested line of SE items you can sell to help with your aggressive marketing policies and strategies implemented daily for SE. Perhaps Siemens Corporate could even set up an SE boosters booth at the next SEU.

bullseye cap

bullseye cup

bullseye tote bag

bullseye apron

I wonder just what others who could be customers for SE think when they watch such incompetent and bungling management from Germany. I happen to know it is by the way because I personally know the people who lead SE and they are totally competent and dedicated. They don’t talk to me anymore because I suppose I have become radioactive. I don’t think it is because I am wrong but rather it is that they have to duck under the German radar that pays them so I am off the plantation. It IS those above them that tie their hands and I just don’t get it. I know, lets have more MEETINGS whoopee!!!!!! Gertrude, where is the SE dart board guy, we have some important decisions to debate again.

I will say this. For those of you who wonder why the rants all the time. There is a ton of stuff that has happened to me personally and a lot of things I know but can’t talk about because employees would get into trouble. I fear I have already unmeaningly done so to some of them. So I avoid specifics now that could be identifiers. But do any of you wonder just why the biggest fan of SE has become a detractor? Now understand I and can’t stress this enough. The program I am in love with and I believe SE is the best mid range MCAD program bar none. It is the Siemens Corporate crap that has totally put me on the offense. It is the environment SE has to live in that infuriates me. No wonder the blogosphere for SE has basically been nonexistent for many years. Outside of Matt Lombard and Tushar Suradkars blogs not much goes on and they are both paid to do it. It is a serious and damning indictment of the way Siemens handles things that there are now NO active unpaid bloggers for SE except for me and I am not exactly talking positively about them anymore. They claim all this market share but have no worthwhile public face.

Buy Solid Edge because it works for you. Not because Siemens will work for you as a customer to see market growth you can benefit from. May I suggest you get the Coffee cup? It will look good and be far more useful than Siemens corporate and it can be your daily companion as you toil away designing.

Solid Edge and the Food Manufacturing Equipment Industry

I find out last year that I fit into a unique category with SE usage, namely the one with the highest adoption rate of using Solid Edge AND Synchronous tech. Now to me the whole ST thing was why I came here to begin with and the demo part that convinced me was one for a machine that severed yeast roll dough. Every time they fiddled with this machine new knives had to be made to accommodate the new required length. You would not think that a machine that just cuts dough blobs required much in the way of accuracy but it did. And the old parasolid traditional way was as we ST users know slow and cumbersome with these types of edits. The demo guy grabbed the front face of the knife and dragged it and all the associated geometry changed. Ten seconds and not ten minutes and I was hooked and bought as ST1 was first released.

And sheet metal, I had to have good sheet metal which SE was acknowledged at that time and now to have the best mid-range MCAD sheet metal capabilities. So I have been with ST from the beginning from it’s pretty clunky ST1 and 2 until now where it is a pretty mature and very powerful program. While I grouse a lot about how stupid Siemens is with Solid Edge I have to say once again that technically there is no better place for a small design build shop whose primary customers are all food manufacturing oriented as I am. And yes as I have proven here before with past videos and posts you can get other files in, for me typically SW and Inventor of course, and work quicker than the author did in his native file and program. Always kind of fun to do this to them and watch their faces as they contemplate the time they have to spend.

But why the food industry and why are we the highest rate of adopters? One of the product lines I make is extrusion dies for cookie dough and it is a perfect example of why. This is not an exact science and how the dough handles suffers from variables such as particulates type and size, texture and resistance to extrusion, and deformation from the depositing process which determines how the deposit cooks off shape wise. Then add in as the process goes along the changing of the recipe for whatever reason and you at times have to start over with the discovery process to become efficient again. When I have my basic shape to use as a “template” and these variables come up I can often make the changes while I am on the phone and send these guys an email shortly after. Quite often with my biggest customer I am either meeting with them face to face or on the phone and I have the required changes done so quickly that they see them immediately and we make decisions in real time. Not another day passes as the whole part has to be redone and then get back to these guys like it used to be. There is no capable substitute for the abilities of direct editing like Synchronous to develop families of parts and variants in these.

Our food manufacturing customers know what they want as a final product but there are no concise formulas or guidelines to follow from many of these companies so it is try this and try that. And the ones who do know of course do not share that information. Even in the case of those who do know though there is always something new they have to work on as the food industry is not a static entity where nothing changes. For example there is a current fad of Glutin Free and how rice flour handles is entirely different than wheat. Even the big boys have to experiment to get it right. All this leads to constant changes that ST is superbly capable of dealing with.

There is another aspect of this design build idea and of course CAD has no reason to exist if you make nothing from it. As I go along further with CAMWorks and it makes more sense I can reflect upon the combination of SE and CAMWorks. I don’t know why models blow up in SW but it is one of the things I hear complaints about. One of the things I have read in the SW forums for CAMWorks is that for some reason merely rotating models in SW can cause them to blow up which appears to complicate things considerably according to the griping. Fortunately I have no experience with this as SE does not do this. It either works or does not but what the result is is always stable in my experience.

Anyway, Swoosh Technologies is going to have a “Lean, Clean Food Processing Machine Equipment Design” online session today and it should be interesting. Here is the link. Sorry about the short notice but I have been really slammed this week and forgot all about this until this mornings emails. Find out why this ST stuff matters for your shop. Even if you miss this event today I am certain this will be made available for viewing later so inquire.

http://trk.cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?6qkv4-dnjtt-m50pqf7&_v=2

Is Siemens Retarded or Just Anti Solid Edge?

I get emails that sometimes boggle the imagination. Today this one takes the cake. Here is a screen capture and you can figure out how to get there if you want.

Is Siemens retarded

So what is it Siemens? A guy who uses Siemens Controlled SE for a month becomes a mouthpiece for how superior NX is over SC SE? Really, you mean this??? What exactly am I supposed to think about this ad from one of your very biggest USA VAR’s?

I think you have no deliberate intention of boosting sales or market share for SE. If it happens fine but you do not seek to make it happen. I have now come to conclude this is a deliberate policy and I have to wonder just what are your plans for SE. I mean really just what am I supposed to think after official advertising such as this and Siemens Corporate smothering any effort to really get the word out on SE. If this is not deliberate policy (and today as I type this I think it is and you have made a choice against SC SE) it is at the very least another sign that the left hand does not know the right under your incapable direction.

Or is it the continuation of the fight between the mighty and lofty superior NX bunch over the threatening SC SE capabilities that might eat into NX sales? Do you people not realize that you are part of the same company? That NX and SE serve two different markets and do not coexist in the same work environments to any large degree? That when you try to sell more NX to SE markets what you are really doing is helping to sell more SolidWorks and Inventor seats into that market?

Unbelievable. Siemens new corporate branding for SE. “Buy NX, it is better!”